Comments (65)
shootersoiree.jpgThe first 'Shooters Soiree' is coming up on Wednesday, Feb 25. It's a no-agenda gathering for photographers, assistants and associated professionals - producers, stylists - essentially anyone involved in Perth commercial photography. Co-organiser, Aaron Bunch said "We figure it's high-time we all talked, laughed and gathered more often."

WHERE: Pure Bar, 331 Hay Street (cnr Townshend Road), SUBIACO
WHEN: Wednesday, February 25
TIME: From 6.30pm
More information available from:
Robert Frith - robert@acorn.com.au
Kate Downie - kate@kmglobal.com.au
Aaron Bunch - aaron@trafficstudio.com.au
Craig Kinder - f22@f22photography.com


Russell Crowe said:

Will Craig be going?

Anonymous said:

Good on the photographers. Pity it will be overrun by art directors blagging invites on the back of some packshot they did last year.

russell crowe said:

please be so kind as to not use my moniker mate.

don't need another squid making me look bad.

And...Smile said:

What is the point guys? We'll just bag agencies and art directors. Small budgets and lack of creative freedom. It's another bitch session like the last one. That was a waste of time that was. All we did was blame the art directors for OUR poor results. The photographic awards locally are a disgrace. Interesting comment 1.27pm about Craig. Is that Craig B or Craig K? One has won many photographic awards and the other is a real photographer. Shutter monkeys of Perth unite and lets get our craft up to scratch and not just turn up for a piss up. Will Allan and Noel be there? What about Rob and Simon? We need these old farts to show up. Stop pandering to art directors and their photo library comped up layouts. 'Just shoot this will ya.' When was the last time we actually added something to an idea? No wonder eastern states based photo libraries love Perth. They are stealing our business and we are letting them do it. A piss up will not solve this huge issue in Perth. Lets make it alcohol free for the first three hours so we can get some big issues discussed. Remuneration for a start. No more paid by the hour bull dust. Minimum fee $7000 a half day. $14,000 a day MINIMUM. The agencies can afford this. If they don't want to pay then stuff 'em. Then we can discuss the usage on top of our daily fees. I've worked around the world and REAL clients do pay. Especially in Singapore and Asia. Come on. Less piss ups. More involvement in real issues. - Smile

Anonymous said:

Now that's the way to post on this blog. One-line wasters and unofficial agency PR hacks please take note. What's more you raise interesting, valid and contentious issues. I'm not a photographer so I won't get involved in the debate but just wanted to say if more people posted thoughts like this rather than the usual half-arsed blah the blog would be a much more interesting place to be.

Now let's hear from the ADs

Shutter Monkey said:

At last someone has the guts to talk about photographers fees in an open blog. I agree with And..Smile. What does everyone else think? And should we blacklist agency creatives who take their own pics???? I did one job last December. Busy now on some product work but Perth needs to be one voice. Is it true the major shoe retailer is using computer generated 3d animation for it's standard 3/4 product shots?
That's going to be the next threat. Real issues. See you at the event. No grog for 3 hours. Good idea.

Anonymous said:

yeah but grog lets you say what you really think

Anonymous said:

Agree 7.26am. It has been so quiet on photographic side of the world. Comment wise. Is anyone still working in Perth who doesn't do weddings? I know a few guys are in Asia a lot. What about that $7000 fee for a half day. OTT. $5k yeah but $7k. No wonder they drive nice cars. Will be interested in AD's comments.

Art Director said:

Ok. I'll be the first to comment as an art director. Ok. I only finished AWARD school last year and have not been in the industry long but as an art director I was a bit put off by the comments about comped up layouts. How are we suppossed to get the idea across to the client without showing them how we want the ad to look. In my experience, account service like the new way of presenting. It's easy for them to sell the concept. And one thing I've learnt is this is a good thing. Some of the older guys in our office still do hand drawn layouts. What is better.? Help. Photographers love the freedom of a hand drawn layout but complain when the result ids not what we want. Experienced art directors, can you give me some advice?

Anonymous said:

At 14 large for a day And Smile I think you'll find that there are a lot more art directors popping out to take their own pics on a little happy snapper! Agencies can't afford it and clients will run a mile, so you'll have to bugger off around the world to make any money! All for supporting Perth photographers, but get real!

$7000 half day?? said:

Nobody will pay $7k for a half day shoot in a fit. I don't see any major fashion retailers paying anywhere near that in the whole of Australia, let alone Perth. Get real. Global Financial meltdown mate. Soon the clients will be taking their own pics if it isn't happening already. Good issue but a bit over the top.

Lets do it. said:

The last soiree was not that bad. If you didn't enjoy it last time then don't come this time. And NO art directors this time. You know who I'm talking about. You spoilt the last soiree with your holier than thou attitude and your big shot feather dusting. Would be good to see the old guys. Is Noel still shooting chickens? Really hard to do well. Hats off Noel. I did a chicken shoot recently and the job was a nightmare. i don't know how you do it but would love to see you at the soiree and talk.

Brett said:

Keen to also see Noel for some tips and hints. Sounds funny but shooting chicken to make it look tasty and delicious is really difficult. I could listen to Noel all night talking about techniques he has learnt over the years. See you there.

Anonymous said:

Forget the photographers, lets just get a big bunch of chickens in a room instead!

Anonymous said:

Actually, ignore my last comment, chickens charge $10k for a half day.

Anonymous said:

9.33, 9.44, 9.51, 9.54 and 10.09 - You're a very, very funny man.

"I did a chicken shoot recently and the job was a nightmare" Classic!

What the? said:

Guys. Noels chickens look great. But sharing ideas is only the beginning. At this soiree we can really make a difference. Other photographers are you there? This is our time to comment. If you are that interested in Noel's chickens pop into Red Roster on the way home. Remuneration will be the big issue at the soiree. If we can all join forces and lock in a rate that we all agree on then we can go back to the PADC with a clear message. NO MORE CHEAP SHOTS. Well done organisers. Don't let us down. I'm sick of shooting weddings and engagement parties. Looking forward to seeing everyone there.

Ray said:

Advice for young art director. Mate, every job is different. Some clients like the softness of a pencil or a wide felt tip pen. I like to present my ideas in various ways. In the past I've even used charcoal sticks because the idea was fashion based. The client loved the loose flowing lines and the idea was accepted immediately. The photographer embraced the idea and we shot in black and white. On film, believe it or not. He used a soft filter which also helped. We printed on Ilford stock. Great result. So, use whatever it needs to get the job across and keep in mind the photographer's tools as well. The good ones can still print in the darkroom which opens up endless possibilities. Variety is the spice of life. Hope this helps.

"Aaron" said:

Great response guys. Will take all the points on board. Organising a powerpoint for the night. It will cover a few copyright and legal points. Powerpoint will take about 40 mins max. Will include these issues. Can you send me any other points or pics you may want to display on the powerpoint. Recent work only. Cheers. A.

"Simon" said:

Sorry, been out on a shoot. Just caught up on this thread. See everyone there. Question for Aaron. Can I say a few words on behalf of the WAPA? We have been working on remuneration. Two words. At last.

Mike said:

If anyone has any catering preferences can they please contact me.

Anonymous said:

Who's the guy in the tie in the pic? Looks like an art director.

Anonymous said:

Was the $14000 a day a misprint or are these guys pulling our collective legs.
As a government client I would not pay that much. Try for $3k a day tops. Sorry guys but the world has changed. We live in a digital world. I'm an old client of Noel's. Those comments about Noels amazing work with our unfeathered friends is true.
I've seen it in the flesh.

Anonymous said:

No chicken please.

Anonymous said:

That's great advice Ray. Thank you. I'm all for variety, but as I cant draw Ilford stock and dark rooms are a bit over the top. Not to mention time consuming and costly. I was brought up on a Mac and I need to have photographers shoot digitally and then I like to use the brush tool in Photoshop for getting the shot perfect. Should I be using the soft round brushes or the hard round brushes? Also any tips on converting the image to B&W? Several of my clients are wanting a retro look to their brochures but I find the greyscale tool doesn't give true shadow highlights and contrasts.

Love to pick your brains in more detail if you are going to attend this soiree?

Ray said:

Unfortunately I'm not invited. But I am happy to comment and lend a hand. Using the brush tool in Photoshop is a good move. I use it all the time. Always use soft brushes. Like in real life the hard brush can give an unwanted scratchy look. Unless you want that younger ' trendy' look.
Experiment with different brush thicknesses. Now converting images to black and white is easy. But don't go mono. Sometimes it is better to keep the image in CMYK. Desaturate the colour until happy. Play with the levels. This will help with that retro look your client wants. Keep some warmth in the pic by keeping some warm tones. The shadows are tricky. Adjust in levels but be careful. We don't want the shadows to fill in when we go to print. Happy to help. Good luck.

What the ? said:

Is this a Shooters Soiree blog or has Noel taken it over as an advertorial for his new Chicken Photography business.. Clever work Noel..

Anonymous said:

Now that's more like it. Just caught up on all the news on the soiree. Good to see a more friendly and helpful thread happening between Ray and Anonymous Mac guy.
That's the Perth spirit. Not all that bitchy stuff. Well done guys. People helping people.

Anonymous said:

Ray - surely this post is the invite?

12.32 said:

Ray, I should have sought your advice earlier. I feel like I have been in the wilderness for the past year or so, but as you correctly point out I have been going the young josh edgy route. Soft brushes is great advice. I might even try the accented edges option. B&W has always been a weakness which is why I was so keen to attend the soiree - It's not often you can get access to Allan, Simon, Richard, Aaron and Noel and find out why the shadows on that $7,000 pic filled in during the print process. And keeping the image CMYK. Genius!

These soirees can be life changing.

Aaaron said:

Thanks for all the pics everyone sent in for the powerpoint. A lot of chicken shots from you know who. Some really interesting and moody work from the students at Mt Lawley (ECU). Looks like they did some nude study work recently. Nice snaps.
And some great new work from Allan. Interesting techniques that will have us all talking levels and curves. Prizes will be handed out if you can guess the locations of some of Allan's shots. The cropping is different to say the least.
Don't forget Pure Bar, 331 Hay Street (cnr Townshend Road), SUBIACO
Wednesday, February 25 from 6.30pm
Drinks at Bar prices. No art directors please

Team Digi said:

Well done guys and congrats to the winners. The soiree will be a good forum to show you work to your peers. Bring your laptops and don't be shy. Have the photography teachers at some of the local high schools been invited? Lets hear what the future of our industry is doing. What about putting an ad promoting the event on the Team Digital (free plug) website. Lots of guys go there to see what's new in digital photographic equipment. (another free plug). Just an idea. See you there.

Anonymous said:

What sort of beer are they serving and are the beers free?

Anonymous said:

See you all there. Well done Aaron and kate.

Anonymous said:

Frithy sorry mate. Well done too.

Anonymous said:

Let's keep a data base of the people who turn up for the soiree. It will be handy in the future. Everyone bring a business card. Give your cards to Kate before the presentation.

Dave said:

Sorry Kinders. Well done organising the event mate. Someone bring a camera. It would be great to put some pics up on the blog. The WHO"S WHO of the perth photographic community.

Anonymous said:

Art Directors.

Are we really going to take this lying down? These guys would be snapping weddings and schoolkids if it wasn't for our hackneyed concepts and badly drawn scamps. And now they are trying to exclude us from all the fun. What say we meet in the Subi at AT's usual table and then march up Hay St. Anyone arriving late from West Perth could regroup at the Vic and head down from the opposite direction. If there are enough of us, they won't be able to stop us getting in.

Anonymous said:

No art directors and no cmaeras..cos we are a shy lot.

Anonymous said:

Cheers Ray & 12.32. You have made me want to gatecrash this party ( I would use the word soiree but I'm not worthy).

Arty Director said:

Love the idea 8.55. All Perth art directors, lets do it and turn up at the soiree.
Dale are you free?

Anonymous said:

Just caught up with this thread but I got to say my chicken madras mixed with Kingfishers just came back up through my nose. Top stuff guys. :)

Aaaron said:

Ok. lets clear this up. Everyone connected with the photographic industry is welcome. The night is going to go off. I was out tonight at the pub and bumped into a few old shutter monkeys and some of the Team Digi guys. They were all talking about the soiree. We decided to extend the powerpoint presentation to an hour to accommodate all the pics that everyone has sent in. The response has been outstanding. I heard from a few food stylists. Yes, of course you guys are welcome.
If anyone knows any make up artists, spread the word.

Anonymous said:

Does anyone remember Williams Gale? I hope those guys can make it.

Keenas said:

Come on CB. When will we see some pics from the soiree on this blog?

Katie said:

I'll be there. Good idea guys. Is it drinks and nibbles or should we have something to eat before we go? Do you need help on the door? Happy to help out and set up tables and stuff like that. - Kate.

Todd said:

Williams Gale. yep. nice guys. Did some great work years ago. Still doing stuff i think.
Will try and get hold of them. Aaron let Craig know I sorted the issue with the powerpoint. It runs just over 80 minutes now. So many shots have arrived. A lot of personal projects from the high school teachers and the wedding guys. Any chance your opening address could be reduced to 15 minutes so everyone can get a drink early before the powerpoint starts.

Anonymous said:

Who invited the wedding photographers??????


We've had a lot of emails re: what to wear.
We can sort this out now.

DRESS. Smart casual please.

AC and K


Sorry. Forgot Robert in the credits again. He is doing a great job too.

Anonymous said:

The first 'Shooters Soiree' is coming up on Wednesday, Feb 25. It's a no-agenda gathering for photographers, assistants and associated professionals - producers, stylists - essentially anyone involved in Perth commercial photography. Co-organiser, Aaron Bunch said "We figure it's high-time we all talked, laughed and gathered more often."

Hey guys. You say in the blog there is no agenda. What's with the 60 minute slide show? More laughing and gathering please. Less slides from wedding photographers.

Professional Camera Repairs said:

Is the night sponsored? Who do I email regarding this. We'd like to get involved.

Anonymous said:

I'm in. See you there.

Anonymous said:

well A C K and R you have certainly got everyone talking...well done...but i agree do we really need the wedding snappers?

A Planner said:

Without wishing to impose, it does seem that you guys could really do with a few planners in the mix on Wednesday. After all, your itinerary for the night is quite ambitious and who better to steer you through your collective brand journey than some switched-on planners? We don't drink that much and we're then ones who "get" that whole visual identity thing. And unlike the Art Directors, we never actually pay for the stock shots we put on our mood boards and hype tapes so there's no conflict on interest there. Hell, our job titles even start and finish with the same letter as yours. Can we take that as a "yes"?

Dumb Photographer said:

Sorry. But what do planners do?

CB Author Profile Page said:

This is a terribly old joke but we'll tell it again anyway. Apologies for the language ("The following joke is rated 'M '. It contains strong coarse language").

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man standing outside a pub below.

He descended a bit more and shouted: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied: "You're in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You're between 40 and 41degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude."

"You must be a Planner," said the balloonist.

"I am," replied the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I've no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help at all. If anything, you've delayed my trip."

The man below responded, "You must be an Account Director."

"I am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you're going. You have risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise, which you've no idea how to keep, and you expect people beneath you to solve your problems. The fact is, you are in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

Meanwhile inside the pub the creatives muttered “Cunts”.

Dumb Photographer said:

Thanks CB. That's all I need to know. Very funny.

Aaaron said:

GOOD NEWS from the guys at team Digi.
We are going to give away a free memory cards on the night.
Anyone who is wearing a t shirt from the 80's will win a free memory card. (2gb.)
Get into it and join the fun.

Anonymous said:

I've got a great CULTURE CLUB 'victims' t shirt. Perfect for the soiree.


Thanks for all the emails. We're thrilled to be a part of the soiree. If anyone comes up to our display stand and buys any digital camera we will buy them beers for the whole night, free of charge. - Team Digi.

Anonymous said:

Hey i've got few groovy T shirts from the 70's..does that mean i get a 4Gb card??....not to mention a set of steak knives!

Anonymous said:

Can wedding PLANNERS come along?

Noel said:

I've got a tee shirt i had from the 1920's. Do I get an external 1000GB hard drive?

Jake England said:

Alright, so let me get this straight, you are all saying you want a set rate across the industry? if I am not mistaken Phil England, my old man, and don't say I'm getting up on a family high horse because I'm not so shut the fuck up before you say anything.

Regarding pricing there was a meeting held by the ACMP about 5 years ago concerning just that, i believe Martin Farquharson will remember the phone conversation he had with Mr England when my old man suggested the idea of a survey so we could try to set some industry standards which no photographer would be forced to dip below.
Mr England proceeded to draft up a survey which Mr Farquharson submitted to Sydney ACMP (thinking they would knock it back).

Some time passed before a Sydney ACMP board member contacted Perth's ACMP saying the idea of a survey of pricing among local photographers was great and wanting to use the survey prepared by us. The ACMP then went ahead and did a survey and a meeting was held and everyone said what a good idea and, surprise surprise nothing ever came of it.

Why when, all this work has been done has nothing ever been done? This is important shit... it's our bread and butter for fuck's sake!

The one thing that will help young photographers starting out all the way through to guys and gals who have been in the industry for years is knowing that we have a standard, it's out there in the marketplace for clients to see and we as a group have the balls to stand by it and not bend over every time a client says "Maaaaate, can you look after me on this one????"

We are good at what we do. We deserve better.

On another note, it's all well and good for you all to yell and scream about this not being right and complain about art directors but at least have the fucking ball's to do it with you own name, I'm looking at you And... Smile, What the? and all of you Anonymous'. How did it make you feel? like a big man yelling from the shadows wanting people to take you seriously? Harden up.

The fact is, your opinion does matter so say who you are you're a part of this industry just as much as the Holly's and the Bird's. Don't hide behind a moniker because that is weak as piss.

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